|
The power of Building Incorprated Owners
|
[ New Topic]
|
|
|
| Regular Member |
 |
| 2831 Posts |
| in |
| Hong Kong |
|
| posted by spannermonkey 279 days ago |
  |
Any lawyers out here specialising in property management?
I am rennovating a flat at the moment, and have just installed some split-type a/c's. Some Incorporated Owners Building commitee member with nothing better to do that look for faults has complained and stated that it is against Commitee rules to install this type of a/c and insisting that I install the archaic window-type - aparently the commitee are worried about the split type falling off and have passed a regulation for any owner to remove their split a/c's. It just so happens that this reg was put in cantonese and not forwarded to all people.
Does anybody know what rights an owner has to object to a buildings commitee ruling? My building has over 400 people living there and only 9 commitee members. What power does the commitee have in enforcng locally derived regualtions?
http://www.marisamiller.com
|
|
|
|
|
| Regular Member |
|
| 6094 Posts |
| in |
| Hong Kong |
|
| posted by Gimpmask 279 days ago (edited 279 days ago) |
|
Your deed of mutual convenants will undoubtedly say you are not allowed to make structural alterations to the building. Unfortunately, the definition of structural alteration is very wide definition in DMCs but would probably include those split type a/c machines. unfortunately, there's not much you can do about it, except:
a) Out-vote the people against (ie get the other members on your side);
b) Install it and hope for the best (though I think you need to put up scaffoldings to have them installed and you need to bear the cost if they force you to uninstall them); or
c) Install window-type split a/c.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Having testicles is like being chained to the village idiot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Junior Member |
 |
| 1848 Posts |
| in |
| Hong Kong |
|
| posted by beer guy 279 days ago |
|
or put empty casing in the window slots to make it look like you're in compliance...........problem solved..........
The above comments are personal and meant for comedic purposes only and in no way reflect the thoughts, ideas or other general lunacy of HKExpats Limited.
third world city with a third world mentality
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Regular Member |
|
| 5075 Posts |
| Sweating |
| in |
| Australia |
|
| posted by xpat-Aussie 279 days ago |
|
Send the lads around to "squeeze their knees"... that'll sort em out right propper like!
"...and once you have tasted flight,
you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been and there you long to return...."
-Leonardo DaVinci
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Regular Member |
|
| 2831 Posts |
| in |
| Hong Kong |
|
| posted by spannermonkey 279 days ago |
|
Thanks Gimpy. Problem is, they have waited until I have installed all my new windows (which have not been designed to accept window type a/c's) before telling me, so replacing the a/c's would not be the only cost. Basically fitting window a/c's is not an option because all the wiring is already in place for the splits. This really is a nightmare. Its down to a bunch of ficking old gibbers who have nothing better to do. The building is over 35yrs old FFS.
http://www.marisamiller.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Regular Member |
|
| 5075 Posts |
| Sweating |
| in |
| Australia |
|
| posted by xpat-Aussie 279 days ago |
|
They probably want some folding stuff to shut them up... seriously though, have you tried the stand over tactics? must be tempting.
"...and once you have tasted flight,
you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been and there you long to return...."
-Leonardo DaVinci
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Newbie |
|
| 393 Posts |
| in |
| Hong Kong |
|
| posted by Zebedee 279 days ago |
|
Spanner - for sure, offer them some money through someone Chinese, sure thing that's what they are after. Make up some story that you'll aim to change next year, but can they accept in the interim.....they will of course eventually forget about it. If they really are uncooperative, you can then raise the bar and threaten to report multiple contraventions of the Building Ordinance to the Buildings Department for your building....if it's 35yrs old, there are bound to be dozens, from Electrics to Lift to illegal structures, to dripping aircons....put it down in a letter, get it translated into Chinese, and give it too them.....I imagine they'll soon go quiet......pain though if you have to live there, hopefully money option will work first !
Whatever...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Regular Member |
|
| 6094 Posts |
| in |
| Hong Kong |
|
| posted by Gimpmask 278 days ago |
|
Well, without getting too academic the DMC definition and Building Ordinance definition of illegal structures are somewhat different. As mentioned, the DMC definition is wide whereas the BO definition is somewhat more defined. The consequences of breaching the BO of course is much greater.
I guesss the problem is that if they let one, then they'll have to let others have it. Then you are gonna have scaffoldings around the building all the time (since as Spanner said, there are 400 families (or just people) living there).
I don't see how paying money to the committee is gonna help.
But I'm surprised they (especially the security guards) didn't say anything when you had the workmen around.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Having testicles is like being chained to the village idiot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Regular Member |
|
| 2625 Posts |
| Livin' it up! |
| in |
| Hong Kong |
|
| posted by Lucas 278 days ago |
|
Tell em to fork the bill for the changes since they didn't tell you beforehand.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open ones mouth and remove all doubt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Newbie |
|
| 492 Posts |
| But not new |
| in |
| Hong Kong |
|
| posted by Gweilo 278 days ago |
|
As the previous posters make clear, and as you probably already knew anyway, one of HK's great strengths is also one of its weaknesses--the huge grey areas in law and in enforcement. Think about the literally thousands and thousands of illegal rooftop structures that have been put up in buildings with owners' committees. Obviously this cannot be done in secret and obviously those structures stay there until the Government serves notice.
Bribes are not the answer. And not all owners' committees are like yours. I've been on ours for seven years and we think of ourselves as looking out for the owners. We have also "stretched" the DMC from time to time when it looked like it was in the interests of all owners. So now what?
Previous posters IMHO have give you some good ideas, the best of which are: (1) attend the next meeting and present your case alone or with friends--if you don't speak Chinese, tell them in advance so they can find someone who speaks English if none are available now; (2) read the DMC yourself and see what other violations you can find--and be prepared for a nasty fight as you prepare to demand enforcement; (3) get a lawyer who can convince you in advance that (s)he knows this type of issue and can deal with it. Be prepared for a big expense if you do that, though, and recognise that your life in that building might be miserable from now on. But don't start offering bribes. We have this little thing called the ICAC, and besides, two wrongs--if you really are in a "wrong" situation--don't make a right. Good luck...
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Junior Member |
|
| 1617 Posts |
| SEOUL |
|
| posted by crusty 278 days ago |
|
Slit units are more environmentally freindly... maybe you can get permission to install under some sort of 'green' policy, if not start one.
Air Conditioning Energy Efficiency
Split system air conditioning is a much more energy efficient alternative to the use of bar and oil heaters for heating rooms. A 1kW split system would outperform a 1kW bar heater 3.5 times. This is a saving of over 70%! This also means reduced effect on the environment. Not only this, split systems do not run 100% of the time and are unlikely to catch on fire. They can be programmed to maintain a set temperature and come on and off automatically when they are needed.
Rehab is for quiters
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Regular Member |
|
| 5075 Posts |
| Sweating |
| in |
| Australia |
|
| posted by xpat-Aussie 278 days ago |
|
Splits are also more environmentally friendly than RAC's (Room Air Conditioners, window type). Not to mention quiter.
"...and once you have tasted flight,
you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been and there you long to return...."
-Leonardo DaVinci
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Regular Member |
|
| 2831 Posts |
| in |
| Hong Kong |
|
| posted by spannermonkey 278 days ago |
|
Thanks for all your advice. I have done some research on this and it appears the government will shortly introduce a bill whcih allows Minor Works to be carried out (Minor Works Control System) - of which condenser support frames is one. However, this only legalises the use of frames but does not impact the DMC which is for the building and the Incorporated Owners to enforce legally. It will still be up to me therefore to convince the Owners that its ok to drill into 'their' building, which is another issue altogether.
http://www.marisamiller.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Regular Member |
|
| 4573 Posts |
| of utter crap |
| in |
| Hong Kong |
|
| posted by keymaker 278 days ago |
|
can't use use Velcro?
I'm available to write reviews of bars as long as they are s**t holes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
