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Chinese International School
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| posted by paenca 113 days ago (edited 112 days ago) |
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Our family is relocating to Hong Kong and has been researching various international schools there for our two school-aged children (8 and 5). We found Chinese International School (CIS) and thought it would be a great school for our kids as our kids are bi-racial. The CIS website makes no mention of the extremely long current waitlists or the near impossible chance of admission for children from families without some kind of debenture.
We received a letter from CIS two weeks ago advising that our children had been placed on the waitlists and thanked us for our interest. The letter again makes no mention of the chance of admission. It was only after we followed up with CIS demanding again answers to specific queries, we were told that there are currently more than 100 applicants for the two grade levels on the waitlists and that on average only 3 to 4 spots open per grade each year. At this rate our children will not be admitted for 20 years. Furthermore, corporate debenture holders are given preference, so there is really no chance that our children will ever be admitted.
It is rather surprising and disappointing that CIS would continue to accept applications and fees (USD$260 in our case) knowing that there is no reasonable chance for admission. We find this a highly unethical and deceitful practice. Is this the type of business these schools are in, generating fees from unsuspecting parents?
Searching for suitable international schooling for our children in a place with very limited availability is itself stressful enough, we feel CIS intentionally profited by taking advantage of anxious parents. We made a complaint to the school and requested that CIS fully refund our application fees, to this date they have not responded to our e-mail.
Would appreciate anyone's insight and suggestions as to this situation. Is there a governing authority that we can lodge an official complaint with? Meanwhile we are quite discouraged and are growing anxious with the difficulties of finding availability at a good international/English-based school in Hong Kong. We have inquired with HKIS, FIS, Canadian IS, GSIS, HK Academy, and ESF, so far the possibility of getting my children admitted in current year appears slim. We are likely to live in the Midlevels so would prefer schools on the HK island. Would appreciate anyone's recommendations as to where else we can try or get assistance. Thanks in advance.
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| posted by Britney 113 days ago |
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Deleted by Admin
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| posted by Load Toad 113 days ago |
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International schools cost a fortune and they won't know how naive you are unless you tell them - that said these practices you mention are pretty normal; at the moment there are not enough school places. In my experience if you are being placed here by a company they should be helping you out and having a suitable school place available should be part of your terms & conditions. If you can't get suitable education for your kids then relocating to HK might not be for you. That's one of life's great choices unfortunately.
The position with debentures is a symptom of the lack of school places.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by Lola 113 days ago |
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Try the English Schools Foundation; it offers a middle ground for parents looking for an 'international' option without the insane debentures.
http://www.esf.edu.hk/index.aspx
Note that ESF schools are zoned so which one your kids go to will depend where you live and there are waiting lists in some cases. ESF schools are highly regarded academically. My girls attend Kennedy (primary) and West Island (secondary) and love it. Eldest went to French Int'l for about 18 months when she was younger and was bullied every day (on her first day at Kennedy, she came dashing out when I went to collect her, her eyes sparkling, threw her arms around me and said "no one was mean to me today, mummy!"). Also found the teaching staff at FIS to be arrogant and patronising to anyone who isn't blond-haired/blue-eyed/white-skinned.
Dancing madly sideways
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| posted by HKBloke 113 days ago |
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I have removed the 'interested parents beware' footnote from this thread because in my view CIS have done absolutely nothing wrong in this instance. Private schools have waiting lists the world over - not just in HK. Most parents enquire as to the length and turnover of said list before paying the admission fee to get their child added.
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| posted by paenca 112 days ago (edited 112 days ago) |
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Thank you for your comments; I am quite surprised by your comments regarding the CIS application practice. I understand most international schools have long waitlists, but knowing the odds are virtually nil and still taking your money without advising such odds just seems outright wrong. I would think schools, above all else, ought to be held to a higher ethical standard. Certainly in large part of the Western system, such a practice will not be considered ethical.
In retrospect I admit we should have done our due diligence before applying to CIS. The international school accreditation international school board is now looking into whether this is a "general practice" which they have indicated may violate their code of conduct. I do not understand why the potential parent victims in Hong Kong view this as "normal" and are happy for the less sophisticated to be taken for a ride. It is this passive tolerance that allows schools like CIS get away with this sort of behaviour.
My fault also, perhaps, for not simply waiting for our mobility team to work through this issue; we simply wanted to get in front of the issues and do some research for ourselves; as it is no fun trying to make 100 decisions at once, which is the standard expat story. Still, a school that advertises itself as having a "Western" curriculum should have some obligation to adhere to "Western" ethical standards.
Note to HK Bloke: what gives you the right to change the name of this thread? Do you WORK for HK CIS?
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| posted by Load Toad 112 days ago (edited 112 days ago) |
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Ethics - western? Hhmm - I think that deserves another thread and smacks of arrogance.
With equal merit one could ask - 'Why didn't you ask how long the waiting list was and what were the chances of getting a place by a certain date?' when you first contacted the school.
People here are not passively tolerant - they ask how long the waiting list is; they know there are not enough places at the Int Schools and those that are available are expensive so they look at other options.
Don't confuse your own ignorance of a situation with someone else having the intention to rip you off.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by bunthorne 112 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by paenca
Note to HK Bloke: what gives you the right to change the name of this thread? Do you WORK for HK CIS?
Seems you have a very high-handed way of going about things.
What right do you have to use this forum to s**g off a local school?
You're not getting off to a very good start.
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| posted by sunwaterandsky 112 days ago |
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Try the new discovery bay school . It is an ESL school, the for profit cousin of ESF. Unfortunately the fees are higher because of the lack of subvention.
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| posted by HKBloke 112 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by paenca
Note to HK Bloke: what gives you the right to change the name of this thread? Do you WORK for HK CIS?
I think i explained the reason perfectly well in my previous post.
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| posted by skinny 112 days ago |
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another newbie with no location?
well.... i'm no expat, and i don't work for CIS. but i assume experienced expats would know anywhere they go, it's always difficult to find school for their kids. that's why an expat should always make that a priority and sort it out (with the hiring company or by themselves) before making a decision to go to that place.
and to say it's "unethical" for the school to accept your application, knowing there is a slim chance to get in, is stretching a bit far. unethical? it's like you're calling some top colleges unethical for accepting hundred of thousand of applications every year. they all know the chance is slim even with perfect score, i don't see people saying Harvard being unethical for accepting applications all over the world.
yes, applying international schools in HK, or any big cities with a large expat population, is like applying Harvard for your kids.
your "sense of entitlement" is off the scale here. anyway, i hope it will get sorted out one way or the other.
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| posted by Juno Watt 112 days ago |
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I'm not an expat either. Why the hell are we on this board? 
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| posted by skinny 112 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by Juno Watt
I'm not an expat either. Why the hell are we on this board?
i don't know about you juno..... but i've worked with enough expats to know a little bit about them.
maybe you just want to become one? 
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| posted by Mr Benn 112 days ago |
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Juno, haven't locals, like yourself, got your own forum to create havoc on?
What the f*ck have you done lately?
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| posted by Juno Watt 112 days ago |
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I'm currently having locational dysphobia and I don't know what I am.
I did used to post on HKLocals.com but all the spitting, dog cooking and door slamming got to me in the end.
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| posted by paenca 112 days ago (edited 112 days ago) |
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Thanks to Mr Benn and Juno for the laugh.
To the earlier criticism, I just want to point out that we are new to HK so are supposed to be "ignorant", that is why we rely on (or hope for) healthy and ethical local governance and practice to help protect interests of those who are ignorant and unsuspecting. Bottom line is had we been aware of the odds, we would not have applied to CIS. On the other hand I believe even Harvard would kindly refund the application fees if an ignorant applicant truly was unaware of the slim odds being accepted to that school. Besides, the selection process of an Ivy League school is vastly different from those at CIS, so the comparison is somewhat inappropriate. Perhaps CIS was not aware of our ignorance in the beginning, however they know now and has simply chosen to not even provide the basic courtesy of a reply.
This thread makes me think of the recent news where a mainland tourist bought a video camera in HK and only found out afterwards that he had paid 5 times the market price for it. If he had shared his unfortunate experience on this forum, some of you would have placed the entire blame on him for not doing his homework of researching the market price beforehand, rather than pointing the finger at the unethical merchant who ripped him off.
It seems many of you are locals who are used to this type of practice. To that I only wanted to say that simply because something has been around does not necessarily make it right and certainly does not mean it must stay. All of us owe it to ourselves and our societies to fix unfairness and injustice as we see it. It is CIS, rather than we, who have the sense of entitlement.
We do appreciate all the comments and feedback, even the negative ones, as they do help us prepare for the kind of mentality and cultural differences of the crowds we will be dealing with in the next several years.
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| posted by bunthorne 112 days ago |
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If you arrive here as a judgmental crusader you'll be in for a very unhappy time.
Really it's not your business to come here fixing unfairness, as you see it.
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| posted by paenca 112 days ago (edited 112 days ago) |
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Of course not, we will not be wasting our time doing that for the unworthy and hopeless, as everyone sees it now.
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| posted by Load Toad 112 days ago (edited 112 days ago) |
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Because something is done differently does not make it bad or wrong. Because it is a system you are unfamiliar with does not make it bad or wrong. Clearly you anticipate there being differences culturally or otherwise because you think it's a cute idea to get your kiddlets an education at a Chinese (& elite) school. So why get so bent out of shape about the other things that are different and advice or opinions that don't support your views 100%?
I think your comments about the govt and such are well over the top given the facts of the case as you've so far reported them; get a grip.
For sure - get your money back - but finding out about the education system should have perhaps started not with applying but with talking to people already here (via message boards and friends) or seeking via the company you are with people who have been posted to HK previously.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by Juno Watt 112 days ago |
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You're all a bit harsh on her, aren't you? I would be fuming too if I had spent money on an application with zero chance of acceptance.
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| posted by DBI 112 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by Juno Watt
You're all a bit harsh on her, aren't you? I would be fuming too if I had spent money on an application with zero chance of acceptance.
US visa application?
www.dirtybootsimages.com
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