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Buying property in China with RMB$2M-4M - would you and where?
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| posted by Chinabear 90 days ago |
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My husband has been asked to move to Shenzhen on company living allowance (not a crash hot allowance but it will do).
He wants to roll the allowance/subsidy in to buying an apartment instead of renting, as his theory is that China property (long term) and RMB (short term) as an asset will go up. (I think he is 2 years too late but that's another matter).
For buying/living in China, does anyone have any suggestions about locations or pitfalls to be weary of?
I am really worried that the growth in property prices will slow down to a trickle in the next couple of years so there are better alternative investment options, but he is really dead set on the idea of buying in Shenzhen......Whereas I am like, if you really must buy, then buy in Shanghai.
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| posted by Load Toad 90 days ago (edited 90 days ago) |
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I would not buy any property in China. My reasons I've stated before but simply put:
- I think there is a housing bubble
- I've not been impressed with the build quality of any of the places I've seen except very high quality developments in Shanghai
- I don't rate the legal system at all if there is a problem
- There are far too many places becoming available for the prices to rise
- In places such as Shenzhen there has been a lot of speculation but if you look at the new build places they are half empty
- With business moving out of Guangdong province due to labour cost and legislation I can't see why property values would increase.
- No one knows what the Chinese govt will do regarding economic policy; they can change the rules without notice whenever they want (an example being the export duty rates last year).
- Rental in Shenzhen is cheap as chips which seems to indicate there isn't a scarcity of places to live
- If I bought anything in China myself it would be in Shanghai if I intended to live there long term
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by Britney 90 days ago |
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Yes, I will buy for 100% sure. If you buy in England, the housing bubble much more bigger!
The economy in China is quick growing. You can feel. Isn't it?
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| posted by Load Toad 90 days ago |
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House prices in England were way to high and I understand they are now declining. Feel free to buy a house and move to UK Britters.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by Britney 90 days ago (edited 90 days ago) |
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Just back from China. So cool. I will upload all the pictures @ facebook!
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| posted by hongkonger 90 days ago |
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I do agree with most of LT's points.
However, at the same looking for an opportunity to take a punt :) In my view there are still some worthwhile properties in southern china (I will avoid offerings by developers like the plague) finding something worthwhile takes time.
If your new in the market, I'd rent first, as LT says it is very cheap compared to HK.
We will consume 85 million barrels of oil today, what's going to be left for tomorrow?
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| posted by Chinabear 89 days ago |
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Hmmm, my husband's POV is that it beats getting .000000001% of nothing from the HK banks for the next 12mths. And he thinks the income of the middle and lower-middle class will continue to go up as China develops over the next 5yrs so at least the fundamentals are in place.
And regardless of my reservations, he still wants to buy. Given this, he can rent for the next 3mths on a short term lease but he will then want to make use of the subsidy.
Does anyone have any experience in buying property in Shenzhen or else anywhere else in China? Any comments most welcome???
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| posted by Gimpmask 89 days ago |
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Is there much of a secondary market in China (save Shanghai)? The last I heard, it's not great and probably subject to a lot of restrictions.
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Savage Local
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| posted by Load Toad 89 days ago |
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Dunno - I can say that most second hand places I've looked at were a bag of s**te and would have needed a lot doing to them.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by Chinabear 89 days ago |
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I've only seen two which we considered buying. Both apartments were in Shenzhen - next door to Coco Park, these were relatively modern. The other was where the HK Expats live right on the coast. (But they had like freakin industrial strength powerlines/towers running right in front of them).
I checked out the rental apartments and they were 'a bag of s**te' alright. There is no way I would consider buying those. Hmmm, this idea of Shenzhen is still not sitting well with me. Only Shanghai has potential. Aaargh.
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| posted by perro 89 days ago |
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Right, as a previous long time Shenzhen resident, I'll try and give this one a go
With land shortages within the SEZ, prices have risen steeply in the last 2 years, and, short of a major economic crash in china, will keep rising overall. The new areas in Futian ( Like Coco Park) are pretty safe at teh moment, as they will be the new downtown, but will still be reasonably quiet. Second hand market in SZ is pretty weak, mainly due to poor building quality,and the ready supply of new apartments. Buying in a complex with well known/respected building management ( like Vanke) will help with the resale price. Poor building management will casue the prive to be substantially lower. All apartments need to be registered with the local housing bureau, who will tax you per month on rental, regardless of whether the apartment is rented, or if you are living in it.
Lastly, if you sell, you will face some everchanging taxes on the final sale price. Think it's currently around 40+%?? of profit if the house was held less than 5 years. Lastly, you face the problem of getting the RMB out of China, unless you are planning to settle permanently. If you do want to buy, just stick with the 3 big cities SZ, SG, BJ)
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| posted by perro 89 days ago |
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Right, as a previous long time Shenzhen resident, I'll try and give this one a go
With land shortages within the SEZ, prices have risen steeply in the last 2 years, and, short of a major economic crash in china, will keep rising overall. The new areas in Futian ( Like Coco Park) are pretty safe at teh moment, as they will be the new downtown, but will still be reasonably quiet. Second hand market in SZ is pretty weak, mainly due to poor building quality,and the ready supply of new apartments. Buying in a complex with well known/respected building management ( like Vanke) will help with the resale price. Poor building management will cause the place to depreciate quickly. All apartments need to be registered with the local housing bureau, who will tax you per month on rental, regardless of whether the apartment is rented, or if you are living in it.
Lastly, if you sell, you will face some everchanging taxes on the final sale price. Think it's currently around 40+%?? of profit if the house was held less than 5 years. Lastly, you face the problem of getting the RMB out of China, unless you are planning to settle permanently. If you do want to buy, just stick with the 3 big cities (SZ, SGH, BJ)
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| posted by Modracer 89 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by Load Toad
House prices in England were way to high and I understand they are now declining. Feel free to buy a house and move to UK Britters.
Better still, buy mine!
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| posted by Chinabear 88 days ago |
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Whoa! 40% tax on capital gain! ....My hubby better know what he is doing if he insists on going with SZ.
What worries me is that I never hear anyone going I wouldn't mind staying in SZ for long term or say I can see SZ being fab in 10yrs time. But you hear that of HK, Shangahi or even Beijing, hence demand in the second hand mrkt.....but Shenzhen? And I don't see much of an expat community there? Or is that just my ignorance?
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| posted by Load Toad 88 days ago (edited 88 days ago) |
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Yes that's just your ignorance. If you include Shekou within Shenzhen. Then that's a lot nicer area and has an expat community. The usual issue with living in China - even Shenzhen is for most expats especially those with little expat experience even living over the border in Shenzhen is more challenging and therefore less fun and desirable than living in an international city like HK. Having said that especially for single blokes - ahem.....there can be a lot of fun to be had. But for couples or families the difficulties of living in China outweigh the benefits and the range of things to do and simply the way you are treated is not attractive.
When I visit Shanghai and meet my western mates up there they seem to live very much in expat communities, do little interaction and follow a rather quaint and restricted expat life that revolves around the same families siting around in the same clubs b**ching about what China doesn't have that they miss. That's not my idea of fun. The alternate seems to be getting drunk at every opportunity and shagging a lot - which can pass the time.
So now you know that buying the house isn't going to be a great investment you have to work out if you have the mentality and expectations to make living in SZ a good idea.
I'd do it if I was single - I'm not so I won't.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by Juno Watt 88 days ago |
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What recourse do you have when the building management decides to sic a bunch of hired thugs on you, as punishment for complaining about various issues, as happened to a group of HK investors in Zhongshan last year?
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| posted by The Cerne Abbas Giant 88 days ago (edited 88 days ago) |
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Why invest in a miserable, iniquitous, polluted, undemocratic, materialistic hell-hole with no rule of law when you can invest in Hong Kong and get the best legal system money can buy?
Watchu talkin' about Willis?
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| posted by Juno Watt 88 days ago |
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Yes, exactly.
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| posted by perro 88 days ago |
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Shenzhen is a pretty good place to live, offering a better standard of living than Hong Kong ( bigger apartments, cheaper prices, cleaner than HKG) and has some nice areas to live ( Shekou, Futian, OCT). It also has very easy access to HKG ( 1 hour to central, border 24 hours) It is definately greener than HKG, and if your younger, a lot of the art and club scene is very cutting edge. Downside is unless you live in one of the big expat areas ( Shekou, Donghai, OCT) you will have to speak some Chinese to get around, and will have to forgo some of the HKG luxuries, but its's not really that bad.
If you are thinking of buying an apartment, definately get legal advise first. Policies change like the wind, as do the ownership laws. But definately, you need to make sure you poick the right place
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| posted by Beer Boy 88 days ago |
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Shenzhen is cleaner than HK???
I take under performing to new lows...
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| posted by perro 88 days ago |
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Yep. clean and green. Just got to get away from Luohu
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