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| posted by bus aunty 86 days ago (edited 86 days ago) |
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quote:
Originally posted by Juno Watt
quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
So I think a job well done is more in order than not.
Honestly? The Great Leap Forward, famine and cannibalism, the Cultural Revolution, the Tiananmen Incident, a 50-year gag on free speech, endemic corruption and a return to the days of landlords (developers) and concubines... a job well done? I can't see how it could have been done worse.
............Corruption is not the sole province of China. You just don't hear of it in the west in the same name, AKA collusion. Multinational Airline's are currently being sued because they have been been secretly colluding between themselves. There is a wheat board case in Australia where the government paid Sadam Hussien tens of millions in inducements to buy their wheat.
quote:
Originally posted by Juno Watt
[quote]
If your premise is that the Chinese government needs to use such an iron fist to keep the country together, then the obvious answer is that the country does not want to be kept together. It doesn't work. Let it break apart into more manageable states. Why should all Chinese-speaking people belong to one monolithic state? All English-, Spanish- or Arabic-speaking people don't.
............Why not go back to fueding warlord times before the CCP came about. Yes, China was once made up of many ruling warlords. Not even the Chinese people want succession in to provinces. The only separatist movements going on is Tibet and Islamist activists in the North.
There is no iron fist ruling China. Sometimes foolish decisions and implementation by the CCP or lack of infrastructure to implement in the provinces but 99% of people living in China are not worried of the "iron fist" bogey man you keep talking about.
.............Juno, "a job well done? I can't see how it could have been done worse".
That's where you and me differ. 'Could have been done worse' is like the CNN reporter who keeps harping on about Chinese stereotypes. That nothing has changed: 'Cultural Revolution" Great Leap Forward, blah blah'.
Yet the Chinese people living in China and outside of it can't disagree with you or him you any more than chalk and cheese. Today, there is freedom to travel overseas, educate oneself, exchange ideas, even critique the CCP as a Chinese citizen of the world. That does not sound to me like RULING WITH AN IRON FIST.
Despite the recent mistakes of the CCP,
I AM PROUD TO BE CHINESE AND OF THE CHINA TODAY.
THE MAJORITY OF CHINESE ARE PROUD TO BE SO TOO.
Unfortunately, that is probably the only difference between me and you.
One of us is more comfortable in the skin we are born in.
CHINESE LOUD AND PROUD, nice t-shirt slogan, no?
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| posted by Load Toad 86 days ago (edited 86 days ago) |
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There is a vast difference between being proud of being a nationality or race and being totally proud with the actions and policies of the government. You really should learn the difference.
Secondly it is not a defence of a poor system to say '...the other system is as bad if not worse'. There is no progress if you do not improve. If I've got cancer my recovery is not dependent on some one else having cancer and being cured. Being as bad as some one else does not make you good.
And finally; nations are so last century.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by puyi 86 days ago (edited 86 days ago) |
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proud of being ethnically (Chinese) Han ???
having travelled extensively throughout all of the geographical area that is politically referred to as china I have constantly been aware of the obvious dominant culture of the Han over what are referred to as the ethnic minorities suffice to say that it isn’t always as obvious to the non Han as to being proud to be swallowed up into the Han notion of what is china.
You mention the Muslims of the north ...you mean the western area of china (Xinjiang) which was also assumed in the 1950’s once again a non Han area who don’t share the views of being proud Chinese ( why would they want to be with all the restrictions on their religious and cultural practices)
The world marvels at one of the only man made structures that are visible from space..The great wall of china and it is remarkable not only for the size of the construction but more so that it at one time clearly defined what are the true borders of china.. the Chinese of the time said the barbarians lived the other side of the wall.....there is a place called Jiayuguan in western china which marked the edge of china’s western borders ......however the borders seemed to have been ever growing
There is even a great wall of china in southern china (guizhou) which was constructed as recently as the 17th century....these walls mark the sovereignty of invasion rather than a proudness to be Chinese ...................
so next time you don your tshirt think of the other people( non han) who live inside the borders of china and consider do they want to share your proudness
darren rudd is a sinophile
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| posted by Juno Watt 86 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
Despite the recent mistakes of the CCP,
I AM PROUD TO BE CHINESE AND OF THE CHINA TODAY.
THE MAJORITY OF CHINESE ARE PROUD TO BE SO TOO.
You keep drawing this connection between being proud of your race (which is in itself very outdated) and supporting the policies of your government. The rest of the world can't quite see the logic of this connection. Dutch people can be very pleased to come from Holland but they are also very willing to criticize their leaders.
quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
Unfortunately, that is probably the only difference between me and you.
One of us is more comfortable in the skin we are born in.
CHINESE LOUD AND PROUD, nice t-shirt slogan, no?
I'm very comfortable being English, thanks.
But if I went around wearing an ENGLISH LOUD AND PROUD T-shirt, people would rightly denounce me for being antagonistic and chauvinist. So it's not a nice slogan, no.
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| posted by bus aunty 86 days ago |
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LT, I only hope to explain/shed some light on the 'reasonings' and 'logic' (rightly or wrongly sometimes) of China and their Asian ways. My messages are not sponsored by the CCP and I certainly don't support them when they do something stupid.
The CCP is the official rulers in place and unfortunately, sometimes in their development they make poor decisions/policies, like all governments do the world over and it results in bloodshed. I am sure, in hindsight, the administration realises it's mistake of 1989, but in the heat of it sometimes poor decisions are made..
You don't harp on about it for the next 100 years do you, and scare monger people for the sake of it? This happens in the US. The China bashing and sensationalism by the Western media is what I object to because it does not help understanding between nationalities/people. Especially, even more fustrating when the USA Administration engages the same bad practices.
....Two wrongs do not make a right, but I wish people would think and question the 'news' reports they hear. Most people in the US only pay attention to the headline and they don't go any deeper. This can't be good for improving relations between nationalities. So often they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
I wish they would let China sort themselves out without interference and flaming tensions between nationalities. Eg. Taiwan. Even Tibet. Tibet doesn't want independence, they want autonomy. And maybe without outside interference, the CCP won't be forced to extremes. My hope would be they get something more like HK/Macau than something else I would hate to think of if the CCP is publicly forced to declare something dumb.
Are things perfect now in China? No, but there is progress. And there will be more to come.
I just wish there was more ACCURATE and helpful communications in the media. That's the only thing that will help PEOPLE in the world. eg. There is a fine line between protest and riot which can quickly escalate to danger for a country as large as China. The Tibet incident was a RIOT not a PROTEST. And the Western media should have called it as such.
More accurate media in the world will hopefully mean one day NATIONS ARE SO LAST CENTURY.
I just hope you expats in Asia go back and bleat on about how HEAVENLY  asia and asian people are to counter influences of turds like Beer Guy's out there and the CNN reporter.
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| posted by Load Toad 86 days ago (edited 85 days ago) |
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I can't see much sense of being proud of being a race really - a few mutated DNA. It's daft being proud of where you are from as that's an accident of birth and where your parents chose (or were forced) to shag and live.
It makes as much sense as claiming to be proud of being born out of a womans vagina in the Fanny Deakin Memorial Ward.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by bus aunty 85 days ago |
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...The nature of human beings is everyone needs belonging and identity. Just some use it as a means to create divides.
Sadly, spreading misconceptions and sensationalising extremes appeals to the former, and perpetuates the later.
Nothing wrong with race/nationalities. It is only when a culture in breeds arrogence and superiority which gives rise to disrespect for other races that results people being mistreated because they are viewed as 'lessor' beings.
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| posted by bus aunty 85 days ago |
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ONE WORLD, ONE DREAM!!  Woh hoo!!! Here comes the Chinese Olympics !!!!!!!
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| posted by Juno Watt 85 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
Nothing wrong with race/nationalities. It is only when a culture in breeds arrogence and superiority which gives rise to disrespect for other races that results people being mistreated because they are viewed as 'lessor' beings.
You're talking about the Chinese attitude to minorities, as much as any other example, I assume.
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| posted by Juno Watt 85 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
ONE WORLD, ONE DREAM!! Woh hoo!!! Here comes the Chinese Olympics !!!!!!!
Are you drunk? If so, that's OK. If not, I don't understand your point...
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| posted by bus aunty 85 days ago (edited 85 days ago) |
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quote:
Originally posted by Juno Watt
quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
Nothing wrong with race/nationalities. It is only when a culture in breeds arrogence and superiority which gives rise to disrespect for other races that results in people being mistreated because they are viewed as 'lessor' beings.
You're talking about the Chinese attitude to minorities, as much as any other example, I assume.
No, I was talking more to the general point of superiority in relation to Western values/culture vs. Eastern values/cultures. More often the Western values eg. advocated by the USA, is seen as the more righteous/superior.
If that is believed by an individual, it might manifest itself in behavior where they can treat another person of another race/culture as a lessor being.
quote:
Originally posted by Juno Watt
[quote]Originally posted by Juno Watt
You're talking about the Chinese attitude to minorities, as much as any other example, I assume.
In the situation you mention, it is more about maintaining power/authority/government. I am sure the Chinese government know the minorities' culture is not lessor than the majority. In fact, they are trying to preserve as many minority cultures as possible. Diversity being the spice of life :)
Hey, if the minorities want to succeed/secede (sp?), good luck to them. But you might find, if a vote was taken, they might be outnumbered. You never know, you might find that some actually are happy to stick with the status quo.
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| posted by bus aunty 85 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by Juno Watt
quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
ONE WORLD, ONE DREAM!! Woh hoo!!! Here comes the Chinese Olympics !!!!!!!
Are you drunk? If so, that's OK. If not, I don't understand your point...
Oh Juno, ain't ya happy that China's holding the Olympics? I am.
ONE WORLD, ONE DREAM = ONE PEOPLES.
Tibetanese, Taiwanese, Hong Kongnese, Macanese, Franconese, Americanese all celebrating the corporate dollar in the guise of Sports.
I am going to be cheering China on, just like the 10,000 Chinese supporters out in force today in Australia.
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| posted by Juno Watt 85 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
Oh Juno, ain't ya happy that China's holding the Olympics? I am.
ONE WORLD, ONE DREAM = ONE PEOPLES.
No, not at all, I have zero interest in the Olympics. It's a commercial event which is used to make political points, and has been for at least 70 years.
For a true sporting event which is supported by all, I go for the World Cup.
The slogan is meaningless, by the way.
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| posted by bus aunty 85 days ago (edited 85 days ago) |
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I love the World Cup, too!
It is also a commerical sporting event just like the Olympics.... Nothing comes for free.
FIFA does not hold it for the love of its fans, my friend.
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| posted by Load Toad 85 days ago |
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quote:
ONE WORLD, ONE DREAM = ONE PEOPLES.
Means nothing.
All of the inequalities in the world won't be altered by the Olympics and never have been.
One world? Like my arse the world is split very clearly by a very small % of 'haves' and a vast amount of 'have nots'.
One dream? What dream?
One People? Really? How is the Olympics addressing tribal issues, racial issues, financial inequality issues? FFS its a commercial competition sponsored by corporations transmitted by corporate and state controlled media. A competition between different nations for celebrating individual superiority but as part of national teams that are then graded in a table as to how many medals they've won. If the Olympics was about the spirit of sport then there would be no medals on offer and the podium would be a flat surface where all the 'competitors' took applause from the crowd for trying theirr best and nothing more.
So the Olympic Ideal is patently a load of utter b*****ks.
As for the media portrayal of what is right / wrong which nations are best / worst, what philosophy is superior / inferior well state or corporate / commercially sponsored media have their own agendas and it isn't to report the truth.
Most western media is owned by major corporations and geared to short duration sensationalist presentations with a large number of commercial breaks to maximise advertising revenue so - go figure. State media will portray what the state wants you to believe. Watch the TV news in Hong Kong and then go over to SZ and watch the same news there - the state edits out any news it doesn't want it's people to know about. This is far more obvious that the corporate medias bias but very worrying - when a state so blatantly manipulates the news like that you have to ask what else they are capable of doing.
The portrayal of certain political systems or philosophies as superior is certainly a fault of western governments and media - in general the west with its political philosophies based upon Greek ideas but gravely corrupted by the worst christian and national excesses do have very selective memories and are narrow minded. The superiority streak and an unwillingness to appreciate other cultures systems is a big problem. Having said that western democracy has yet to be bettered though it is by no means a panacea for the worlds ills and the governments who support it's implementation everywhere grossly underestimate the difficulties of moving to democracy from any other system.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by Paps of Jura 85 days ago |
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Ohhhh god is BA TB ???
Dib Dob nib knob
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| posted by The Cerne Abbas Giant 85 days ago |
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Personally, I find modern China to be bleak and joyless. The more I go there the more I feel this. I suppose a s**tload of Olympic gold medals will distract the proletariat from this for a while.
Watchu talkin' about Willis?
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| posted by puyi 85 days ago |
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bus aunty you love your motherland so much why do you live outside heaven ??? and hang with the terrible western expats on the net?
darren rudd is a sinophile
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| posted by Gimpmask 85 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
ONE WORLD, ONE DREAM!! Woh hoo!!! Here comes the Chinese Olympics !!!!!!!
They must have hired that unimaginative w***er from Cathay to come up with that one....
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Having testicles is like being chained to the village idiot.
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| posted by bus aunty 85 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by puyi
bus aunty you love your motherland so much why do you live outside heaven ??? and hang with the terrible western expats on the net?
Puyi, I have friends of both persuasian because I can appreciate individuals. I have dated men of both persuasion. I don't see 'countries' I see people.
This harks back to 'you chinese, that line pls'. 'You Italian, that line pls'. And never the two shall meet. This would be unfortunate.
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