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Attack on an American volunteer by anti-Carrefour mob
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| posted by bus aunty 70 days ago (edited 70 days ago) |
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[quote]Originally posted by bus aunty
[quote]Originally posted by puyi
Why not cash in the us passport uptakes return to a country that you were not born in, did not raise you, did not give you your education, or your freedom of expression..............
fact of birth also equates to some strange need to identify with a facial characteristic rather than identify with the culture that you were brought up in ( that is if you were raised in the usa ) ( or raised in an elite wealthy family in HK)
........Further to this, you should ask USA citizens, why for so long, they are so inwardly looking and couldn't criticise their government nor President for the Iraq war decisions?
*CNN and ABC news would look so unpatriotic (and therefere less viewer ratings) if they aired truthful critical views about their government's decision which were LUNACY and OUT RIGHT LIES. Hence, Bush was elected a second term!!! Now that is what I call, BLIND PATRIOTISM due to FACT OF BIRTH.
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| posted by Load Toad 70 days ago (edited 70 days ago) |
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quote:
........Further to this, you should ask USA citizens, why for so long, they are so inwardly looking and couldn't criticise their government nor President for the Iraq war decisions?
That's quite simply a load of bollix. The presidents approval rating is lower than any president has ever managed.
'President Bush has set a record he’d presumably prefer to avoid: the highest disapproval rating of any president in the 70-year history of the Gallup Poll.
In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday, 28% of Americans approve of the job Bush is doing; 69% disapprove…'
If you look at the number of blogs (Crooks & Liars, Huffington Post, Daily Kos) and the number of programs (including the major networks & CNN etc) carrying such as Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, Keith Olberman & The Colbert Report there is very obviously a massive amount of dissent targeted at the administration and the right wing / neo-cons.
That debate simply is not possible in China.
The primaries taking place - the seemingly endless debate as to even who will be the Democrat candidate for the next presidency - simply is not possible even in Hong Kong, nevermind China.
Therefore you have to retract your last comment as it has no foundation.
It's obvious that you are very emotional and reactionary bus-aunty but unfortunately that doesn't solve problems by iteslf; I think you need to research your subject a little better.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by puyi 70 days ago |
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oh dear bus aunty seems upset and acting more like bus uncle 
darren rudd is a sinophile
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| posted by bus aunty 69 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by Load Toad
quote:
........Further to this, you should ask USA citizens, why for so long, they are so inwardly looking and couldn't criticise their government nor President for the Iraq war decisions?
That's quite simply a load of bollix. The presidents approval rating is lower than any president has ever managed.
'President Bush has set a record he’d presumably prefer to avoid: the highest disapproval rating of any president in the 70-year history of the Gallup Poll.
In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday, 28% of Americans approve of the job Bush is doing; 69% disapprove…'
You need to go back to see his approval rating up to the Iraq decision to invade, and the several years following. It was sky high because the media did not objectively look at what was being put out by the administration. The Iraq invasion was painted and reported as the heroic war on terrorism. Not the INVASION of another country.
His rating has started to plummet only recently which is also due to the down hill spiral of the US economy; not some moral enlightenment.
....Interestingly, isn't one of the election ideals (Obama vs. Hillary) at the moment about Government not being bought by big business 'payments'/corruption?
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| posted by bus aunty 69 days ago (edited 69 days ago) |
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quote:
Originally posted by Load Toad
[quote] That debate simply is not possible in China.
The primaries taking place - the seemingly endless debate as to even who will be the Democrat candidate for the next presidency - simply is not possible even in Hong Kong, nevermind China.
Quote from the IOC on the China situation:
The IOC's Rogge urged the West not to be smug. "It took us 200 years to evolve from the French Revolution. China started in 1949," he said in the Financial Times interview, noting that was when Britain and other European nations were also colonial powers, "with all the abuse attached". He added: "Let's be a little bit more modest."
As I said, I can appreciate that China has a way to go but progress takes time in any country as large as China. And in my opinion there is more to be positive about than not.
And sometimes, it is more an issue of RESOURCES and SYSTEMATIC INEFFICIENCIES of a country, not country of origin being the issue. Eg. I was so  when I first read about the BILLIONS being siphoned off by individuals in China. You are only use to MILLIONS being lost usually in western worlds. But then, I said is this part of the mentality of Chinese people or is it the fact they don't have computers and accounting systems, training in provinces for use of technology in order to ensure resources are used for what they should be at the grass roots level?
These are the issues that I want the CCP to fix. Education issues so that people ain't blood donating and infecting a whole province with HIV, and so on.
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| posted by bus aunty 69 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by puyi
oh dear bus aunty seems upset and acting more like bus uncle
Yeah, when a discussion gets hijacked in to a case/justification via elitism and race, that is just w*nky.
Oh my, I am so  . Waaaahh Waaah.
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| posted by bus aunty 69 days ago (edited 69 days ago) |
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quote:
Originally posted by puyi
.... (however the majority were students who whilst studying in oz were assisted / directed to attend the torch relay ...I wont say coerced )
Puyi, WHO MADE these Chinese students/supporters get on the buses??
Law of supply and demand....CCP can have 50 million buses there and they could all be empty if no one wants to board.
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| posted by bus aunty 69 days ago |
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on a lighter note....  unlike the rent a crowd of the Japanese right wings hired in the Olympic torch relay today.
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| posted by Load Toad 69 days ago |
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bus aunty ,
I don't think you read what I type before you make a response.
You ask why Americans are not criticizing their government - I explain that quite obviously they are and you respond by talking about his approval rating before the war.
Again - you are talking BS.
Before the war the presentation of 'facts' about WMD and the fake link between the terrorists and Iraq and the supposed purchase of uranium from Nigeria & the mobile bio weapons labs were one of the reasons for Bush's high ratings and it was still with the horror of the Sept 11 attacks sill in everyones minds. Of course the approval ratings were high as it seemed that the administration was addressing serious issues correctly.
Since then - since the facts have been found out - by the voices of dissent - since that has happened the ratings have fallen, and there are attempts being made (slowly but surely) to bring some members of the administration if not Bush himself to face congress to explain what they've being doing.
On the next issue of the IOC mentioning the French Revolution (which is relevant to any debate on moving to democracy and it's aftermath) is not an answer to my point about debate not being possible, open or free in China. If China wants to make progress the ability to discuss things that are happening freely has to happen sooner not later; how can you improve something if you can't discuss it being flawed?
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by puyi 69 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
quote:
Originally posted by puyi
.... (however the majority were students who whilst studying in oz were assisted / directed to attend the torch relay ...I wont say coerced )
Puyi, WHO MADE these Chinese students/supporters get on the buses??
Law of supply and demand....CCP can have 50 million buses there and they could all be empty if no one wants to board.
My sources in oz have mentioned that the Chinese embassy in oz assisted the 10,000 to get to Canberra just as there was an orchestrated anti Japanese demonstrations in Beijing 3 years ago
Don’t be so naive to think that Beijing didn’t do all in their power to ensure that pro china supporters were going to be evident in the oz relay...how strange that rent a crowd turned up and the average age was in the university studying age group????
As for the Carrefour demonstrations there will be some people in china who won’t be happy as their investments in this French company are being jeopardized by the reduced sales etc etc..........
darren rudd is a sinophile
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| posted by bus aunty 69 days ago |
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Puyi, you seem to me like a non-Han minority who seems to be have a big problem with me or anyone else being proud to be Chinese. If you have been scarred by something the Chinese government has done to you which has totally fueled your ANTI-CHINESE views on everything CHINESE, then by all means educate us but don't cast dispersions about me or a situation like the Oz protest or the Carrefour situation.
You really need to discuss the issues and not the person.
'My (authoritative???????) sources in oz.....' tells me that the 10,000 voluntary students were actually 100% Chinese CCP supplied spies!!!!! Does that make you happy? I guess no body helped/assisted organise the Tibet protesters to get there either? The whole point is WHY do either parties have their views and not who supplied the buses for either parties to get there.
As for the Carrefour protest, like all protests, symbols are used. Your point seems to be 'oh, the Chinese are dumb for using Carrefour as a symbol as they are only hurting themselves. So given the 'dumb' argument/views presented by 'dumb' Chinese people, just dismiss them? Why are you so personally upset that Chinese people can actually be proud of their country or protest on behalf of their country?
BTW, go back to economics 101, but if you really want to make a point about the monetary hurt/loss, let's just say, the CEO of Carrefour is certainly worried about the next Asia quarters finance numbers. And when one boycotts one chain, they still need to buy elsewhere....so the dollar that would have been spent at Carrefour goes to another shop that employs a local elsewhere. And, yes the bulk of the profits on those foregone Carrefour sales would have been sent back to French shareholders (otherwise there would be no point to restricted levels of foreign ownership laws).
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| posted by puyi 69 days ago (edited 69 days ago) |
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bus aunty 
darren rudd is a sinophile
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| posted by Load Toad 69 days ago |
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The people (mob) at the Carrefore protest are not in full possession of the facts are they? Since there is no free press, free blogs or opposition party?
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by bus aunty 69 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by Load Toad
You ask why Americans are not criticizing their government - I explain that quite obviously they are and you respond by talking about his approval rating before the war.
Since then - since the facts have been found out - by the voices of dissent - since that has happened the ratings have fallen, and there are attempts being made (slowly but surely) to bring some members of the administration if not Bush himself to face congress to explain what they've being doing.
.......And I certainly hope that the natural conclusion of their Western high moral ground, manifesting in their Human Rights Tribunal like instituitions, that he will be held to trial for war crimes? That the same congress will pressure him and media reporters will print in their newspapers that he should be held to account at that level? See the hypocracy that upsets the Chinese supporters is that HE WON'T BE going to trial for war crimes but less powerful nations will.
In response LT, my take on the situation is, I am sure behind closed doors (not as public as the Western/US values are use to or would like), the CCP discuss EVERYTHING FRANKLY and look at ways to improve themselves and their country. Just because it is not made in public (the prefered Western value/culture) does not mean frank discussion in less open forums (the prefered Eastern value/culture) does not happen in China.
Yes, it iratates the Western world/media/public as they are not use to more closed governments, and their own Chinese citizens no end when they can't always get to be part of the decision making progress or get the information they want to be able to from the CCP. And granted, sometimes it might lead to poorer outcomes. but that does not mean the Chinese supporters in the world should be viewed as dumb or inferior citizens of the world. Or, should not be proud of their country. And sometimes, it is not about the method of the decision making (CCP authority), it is about practical implementation problems, resources etc.
You can't just say, if there was more open government ie. = only the western model of democracy, the ills of the society will be gone in China. You can have all the global information out there in China you want (which I can see will probably happen in about 15yrs time) but there will still be dissenters, still be abuses, still be economic disparaties in the country and s**te. It ain't perfect now, and it won't be in future. Just like the s**te that happens in every country, because................Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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| posted by bus aunty 69 days ago (edited 69 days ago) |
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....IMO, I for one, don't care what form of power any country takes. Or what method or controls of information dissemination takes place. Democratic, socialist, fascist, communist, or what degrees of whatever countries and their legit or illegit leaders want to paint themselves in.
Whatever works in whatever system, they all got their pros and cons. And the more I see, the more I wonder what system is better and what is not. And if it is just an issue of semantics.
I just want the waste of resources and abuses that goes on in all these governments to stop and for whatever form of authority that exists to better the livelihoods of their own citizens, at a faster pace.
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| posted by bus aunty 69 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by Load Toad
The people (mob) at the Carrefore protest are not in full possession of the facts are they? Since there is no free press, free blogs or opposition party?
....Opposition party? You think a two horse race is an opposition party in Australia? When there was a third (Pauline Hanson) that threatened their status quo position, s**te, they were both pretty quick to put her behind bars.
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| posted by bus aunty 69 days ago |
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...Try using the word free press and human rights to the minority indiginous people (Indians in US, Aborginies in Oz, Maoris, and so forth). They might have a different perspective on the 'white man's' version of human rights, morality, 'democracy' and wonderful instituitions.
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| posted by bus aunty 69 days ago (edited 69 days ago) |
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ahhh, but they should be greateful to the one man one vote, that 'we' voted to give them.....once we had our 'moral' powers of institutions in place (by right of the power of numbers flooding their lands).....but in this case MAJORITY rules. And of course, you're better for it and your livelihood are better....so shut up????!!!
..We are superior, we know better? You ungrateful dumbo, powerless minorities?
*scratch head* where have I heard that story before?
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| posted by Load Toad 69 days ago |
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For some one who types so many words you don't make an awful lot of sense.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by Juno Watt 69 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
...Try using the word free press and human rights to the minority indiginous people (Indians in US, Aborginies in Oz, Maoris, and so forth). They might have a different perspective on the 'white man's' version of human rights, morality, 'democracy' and wonderful instituitions.
So despite all the typing, we're back to the start: you're using one wrong to justify another.
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