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China in Hong Kong: Who were the people denying protesters their right to be heard in TST?
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| posted by Juno Watt 10 days ago (edited 10 days ago) |
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The SCMP has very little on the Olympic protests in TST on Friday which were drowned out by violent pro-China crowds. This event was a reversal of the usual Hong Kong tolerance for opposing voices. Many of these "fenqing" (angry pro-China youth) seem to have come directly from China for the event.
Luckily the Apple Daily covered the story in more detail and ESWN has translated some of their coverage.
quote: At 9am, about twenty members of the Alliance In Support of Patriotic Democratic Movements of China chanted "Vindicate June 4th" and "Go China" outside the Peninsula Hotel in Tsimshatsui. Several hundred mainland travellers countered with "Go China" and "Go Beijing." When the Alliance members attempted to follow the torch to continue their protests, they were blocked by fenqing holding five-star flags. Someone swung their fists and others used umbrellas to hit them. It was a chaotic scene. The police sent reinforcement to open the way, but thousands of fenqing followed the Alliance members and cursed them out for being running dogs for the west and traitors.
Alliance vice-chairman [Lee Cheuk-yan] said that this was the most difficult march that he has ever seen. He thought that cultural diversity was an important Hong Kong value and that there is no need to use violence to express different opinion. The mainland fenqing say that they respect freedom of speech, but they used tactics such as a sea of flags and blocking passage to stop the Hong Kong protestors from expressing their opinions.
At around the same time, more than a dozen members of the Civil Human Rights Front assembled at the intersection of Nathan Road and Haifong Road to raise banners such as "One dream, one human right; return governance to the people and improve livelihood." Several hundred angry patriotic people surrounded them and cursed them out. Dozens of police deployed in a human chain to protect the members of the front. But these patriots kept shouting: "Go away! Shameful!" Someone yelled: "We have enough people here that we can stomp them to death with one stomp per person." The police eventually removed the ten or so peaceful petitioners from the Civil Human Rights Front.
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quote: Ms. Zhang and Ms. Li came from Shenzhen to watch the sacred flame. They carried homemade posters to protest the inaccurate reports from CNN and they wore mouth masks with the words "Stop Lying." She did not explain what the inaccuracies were but she kept saying, "It was unforgivable for CNN to insult the Chinese people." Another fenqing was unhappy with a 72-year-old Hong Kong taxi driver holding a placard in support of the Dalai Lama. He charged up and cursed: "How old are you? Do you know history? Do you know who feeds the people of Hong Kong?"
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quote: Yesterday, the mainland young people behaved politely; when they bumped into someone, they apologized in English. But when it comes to Tibetan self-determination, the vindication of June 4th and human rights violations in China, they would yell with their veins popping questions such as "Are you Chinese?" "Have your been to Tibet?" "You don't know Chinese history!" and accuse others of being unpatriotic.
Xiao Yin came to Hong Kong from Shandong as a tourist. His first target is the Alliance In Support of Patriotic Movements Of China which he accused of separatism and treason. He waved a five-star flag which almost hit members of the Alliance. He also stood next to Hong Kong University student Christina Chen and used five-star flag to cover her snow lion flag.
More here: http://www.zonaeuropa.com/200805a.brief.htm#009
I understand the Hong Kong government is under great pressure to ensure a successful torch relay in Hong Kong, but has lasting damage been done to the idea of "two systems"?
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| posted by Lola 10 days ago |
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Mostly harmless
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| posted by Load Toad 10 days ago |
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The Monkees were better than The Beatles.
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| posted by Juno Watt 10 days ago |
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Nice pictures 
Someone pointed out that "One World, One Dream" is suspiciously close to "Ein Volk, Ein Reich" but I want to know who came up with the stupid idea of One Dream anyway? It's a totalitarian ideal. In my world, there are a billion different dreams.
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| posted by 2hot2handle 10 days ago |
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quote: Originally posted by Juno Watt Nice pictures  In my world, there are a billion different dreamsgirls.
call an orange an orange please
Ex Freak on a Leash & Killer Tomato Soup, sorry but had to change as was being chased down by the spelling bee masterchampionships
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| posted by Load Toad 10 days ago |
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In this wonderful quest to belong - which we are told we must embrace and promote or we are not true patriots it appears that we must reject, ridicule and attack those that do not wish to belong or have other views. That's setting a very dangerous time bomb ticking and one that any government will one day regret.
The Monkees were better than The Beatles.
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| posted by Juno Watt 10 days ago |
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Yes.
I was sorry to see one of the pro-Beijing legislators last month recommending that pro-democrats have their HK citizenship revoked. These kind of vindictive actions are reminiscent of 'United Front' tactics from the mainland.
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| posted by smog 10 days ago (edited 10 days ago) |
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quote: Originally posted by Juno Watt The SCMP has very little on the Olympic protests in TST on Friday which were drowned out by violent pro-China crowds.
Frankly I was quite surprised the other way by the SCMP's coverage. I have felt for some time that the paper was becoming too "pro-Chinese, don't rock the boat", but the write up in large font on today's front page seemed about right to me. About 35% of that article covered dissenting voices: it described the refusal to allow entry to some activists as "regrettable" It noted that other demonstrators were allowed to continue "supporting Tibet or calling for human rights improvements on the mainland". It continued: "The only sour note was the police's heavy-handed way of "protecting" some demonstrators by removing them".
My own limited observation was that there were huge numbers of people out in support of the rally and being somehow vaguely "patriotic". The number of protesters was a tiny, tiny fraction of that. The proportion of the coverage they got in the SCMP was substantially greater than their actual presence: out of nine large pictures on pages 2 & 3, three of them show protesters.
I'm not sure what your expectation of a free press is? Shouldn't they report as accurately, and proportionately, as possible on events they observe? I'm sure you're not saying that a "free press" should give disproportionate weight to viewpoints just because you happen to agree with them?
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| posted by Juno Watt 10 days ago |
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quote: Originally posted by smog
I'm not sure what your expectation of a free press is? Shouldn't they report as accurately, and proportionately, as possible on events they observe?
Absolutely. My standpoint is that Nathan Road full of people waving flags is not "news". But on the other hand, the Hong Kong authorities breaking their own laws by suppressing the right to demonstrate certainly is "news" and should be treated as such.
To be honest the SCMP did also print an op/ed piece by Stephen Vines which was spot-on in saying that HK missed a chance to show the world that this city is different to the rest of China.
quote: I'm sure you're not saying that a "free press" should give disproportionate weight to viewpoints just because you happen to agree with them?
No, but as above, I think newsworthy items ought to receive more coverage. Apple Daily certainly seemed to think so but it is outnumbered in HK by pro-China newspapers.
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| posted by smog 9 days ago |
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quote: Originally posted by Juno Watt My standpoint is that Nathan Road full of people waving flags is not "news".
It's the first time it's happened in my 9+ years here, and I felt there was some doubt in advance about how popular the parade would be, so I think it is news.
What will be interesting is the 4 June vigil in Victoria Park and what support there is for that this year. But if it's more or less the same as last year, would that even be a newsworthy event?
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| posted by Juno Watt 9 days ago |
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quote: Originally posted by smog It's the first time it's happened in my 9+ years here, and I felt there was some doubt in advance about how popular the parade would be, so I think it is news.
It reminded me of the handover, which received wall-to-wall coverage everywhere, but similarly was not "news".
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| posted by Juno Watt 9 days ago |
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quote: Originally posted by smog
What will be interesting is the 4 June vigil in Victoria Park and what support there is for that this year. But if it's more or less the same as last year, would that even be a newsworthy event?
It doesn't usually receive much coverage, because it's a long-running event (19 years running this year, I think).
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| posted by smog 9 days ago |
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quote: Originally posted by Juno Watt It reminded me of the handover, which received wall-to-wall coverage everywhere, but similarly was not "news".
I feel we must have rather different definitions of "news"!
Most dictionaries seem to define it as "a report of, or information about, recent events" or something very like that, which seems right to me. How would you define it?
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| posted by smog 9 days ago |
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quote: Originally posted by Juno Watt
quote: Originally posted by smog
What will be interesting is the 4 June vigil in Victoria Park and what support there is for that this year. But if it's more or less the same as last year, would that even be a newsworthy event?
It doesn't usually receive much coverage, because it's a long-running event (19 years running this year, I think).
My recollection is that it still makes the front page of the SCMP most years. Do you think it should?
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| posted by Juno Watt 9 days ago |
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quote: Originally posted by smog I feel we must have rather different definitions of "news"!
Most dictionaries seem to define it as "a report of, or information about, recent events" or something very like that, which seems right to me. How would you define it?
No, it was absolutely not a news event, because we all knew it was happening 13 years in advance, and there were no surprises; everything was carefully stage-managed and all the reporters who came here from the far corners of the world basically wasted their time (but probably enjoyed the expenses-paid trip). There was nothing to be learnt from the event because nothing connected to it was spontaneous or unexpected.
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| posted by Juno Watt 9 days ago |
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quote: Originally posted by smog My recollection is that it still makes the front page of the SCMP most years. Do you think it should?
Not really, no. Certainly it should not get 5 pages of effusive photos, like the torch relay did.
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| posted by smog 9 days ago (edited 9 days ago) |
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quote: Originally posted by Juno Watt No, it was absolutely not a news event, because we all knew it was happening 13 years in advance, and there were no surprises;{...}. There was nothing to be learnt from the event because nothing connected to it was spontaneous or unexpected.
I feel you're taking a much more "Reithian" view of the role of the news media than most people. You seem to feel that news must be educational or thought-provoking or unexpected in order to constitute "news". I feel that simple reportage of any event (however expected or planned) which is involves or impacts or has the potential to impact a significant proportion of the readership is news.
By you definition, for example, "this is one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" would not have made the front page because it had been planned for many years and went entirely as planned.
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| posted by Juno Watt 9 days ago (edited 9 days ago) |
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Well, be that as it may. I think that this:
quote: Xiao Yin came to Hong Kong from Shandong as a tourist. His first target is the Alliance In Support of Patriotic Movements Of China which he accused of separatism and treason.
is much more revealing (and therefore newsworthy) than "lots of people waved flags at the sacred torch and had a lovely time". But the SCMP only reported the latter and didn't look into where the more abusive pro-China supporters came from.
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| posted by bus aunty 9 days ago |
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Juno, IMO, it does get rather tiring hearing that you represent the only legitament 'local' view and of such conscience on this forum. In fact, you represent only ONE 'local' person's POV and in this case, clearly the VERY VERY MINORITY.
There is no doubt there was a massive and rather unexpected outpouring of support from the people of HK yesterday for China and the Olympics. And hence, it was quite interesting and VERY newsworthy. It was the same for the 500k march for democracy in HK.
Both public events showed the spirit of HK, that was undeniably expressed by the community and volunteered freely. You can paint the bulk as coming from China all you want but that shows more your bias and wishful thinking than anything else.
And as for the VIOLENT protesters, I think they would have been very quickly arrested if things had got really out of hand. Once again, bias and wishful thinking on your part.
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| posted by bus aunty 9 days ago |
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I saw Mia Farrow on the news asking for China to (her words) 'persuade the governenment of Darfur', (she should be asking USA to STOP the creating of tension in the region and supplying of funds and arms). I saw the Tibet protests, I saw Martin Lee and that Union legislature, and the day before we had the statue painted in orange.
These dissenting voices of protest clearly had a chance to make their views known, but one must also accept that clearly, the majority had spoken yesterday.
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