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China in Hong Kong: Who were the people denying protesters their right to be heard in TST?
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| posted by bus aunty 57 days ago (edited 57 days ago) |
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BTW, nice one Juno with the slant below. China is damned by 'unbiased' dodgy do-gooders - if they do and damned if they don't.
The practise of filming rioters have occurred eg. in Sydney and Melbourne by riot police for evidence and identification of offenders. In China when they use the same practise, the slant is more sinister. And when Chinese authorities can get video proof of something untoward, they get accused of falsifying the evidence by 'planting' a rioter so the authorities are justified to go in and unjustifiably violently attack the 'saints' and 'non sinners' for fun or political reasons.
Man, this is why I take with a grain of salt so many criticisms of China, or bad press, or stories by bloggers such as you and Puyi.
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posted by Juno Watt 45 days ago
Agreed, but that doesn't mean atrocities in Tibet are any lesser.
Look further down on ESWN and you'll find an examination of pictures which ask whether the monk filmed attacking a shop is in fact a Chinese saboteur. It's not unknown for authorities in many countries to 'seed' a crowd with their own operatives, to transform a peaceful protest into a riot in order to have the excuse to respond to it violently.
A New York Times story today suggests that Chinese police did nothing in central Lhasa (notwithstanding their beating of monks outside the city) until they had the footage of violence they required. Only then did the army move in.
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| posted by Load Toad 57 days ago |
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In the UK when I used to go to watch footie home and away the Cops would video any fighting and stuff and it evolved into them videoing anybody they suspected of being a football fan. I took this as a great infringement of my privacy and now I don't live in UK and UK has more CCTV surveillance per person than anywhere else in the world and generally the UK has become a nanny state interfering with the lives if its citizens and restricting freedoms whilst losing the fight against street & violent crime.
To me that indicates that draconian state policing and spying are not the things that stop nasty activities. Just a thought like.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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| posted by bunthorne 57 days ago |
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On a very superficial headcount level it would appear not.
What would be the incidence of crime, and the nature of it, without the cameras? Statistics don't prove a lot.
I have no problem with street cameras - can't think of anything I'd do in public I'd want hidden from view.
As for privacy, gossipy neighbours destroy reputations much more effectively than dumb cameras.
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| posted by smog 57 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by bunthorne
What would be the incidence of crime, and the nature of it, without the cameras? Statistics don't prove a lot.
If you follow through some of the links at the blog entry linked above you'll see more on this. There have been detailed studies comparing data on crime in the same locales before and after cameras, normalising for any overall changes in crime incidence. They show, generally, the same result, except that murderers moved more than 250 feet away from cameras before killing people.
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| posted by bus aunty 57 days ago (edited 57 days ago) |
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*The UK bill has finally done a study to confirm that the CCTV system, originally installed to prevent crime has failed in its use.
*And discovered only 3% of crime has been solved by use of CCTV.
*And the reason given was because cops found it too boring to look through hours of footage.
*They are now looking at more effective ways to use the system.
.....Ho ho, I left my previous country because I couldn't stand the place anymore either; The freedom which HK affords in lifestyle (not material wealth) is unmatched. I know of a German who went to NZ because of the same, tired of the rules related to every day living.
Strange how the same place can be viewed as lacking in freedom and at the samne time 'free' by others. For a place like HK to be described by Margaret Ng and Martin Lee, as a 'cesspool of decreasing freedom' due to China is so far from the truth...... I wish Martin Lee would live elsewhere for 10yrs and I bet your bottom dollar he will crawl back to this 'cesspool' of HK faster than anything. And the people have spoken, the democrats seem after years of bleating, quite lost in direction except being anti-all things China.
...Why was I not surprised she said the torch relay nominees were not to her standard. When was it ever going to be?
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| posted by smog 57 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
And the people have spoken, the democrats seem after years of bleating, quite lost in direction except being anti-all things China.
I think you meant "Democrats". The time is long gone that the Democratic Party in HK was the only home for local democrats.
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| posted by Juno Watt 57 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
...Why was I not surprised she said the torch relay nominees were not to her standard. When was it ever going to be?
Were they up to your standard? Running dog Tsang Hin-chi and a bunch of tycoons and political appointees, and a minority of actual athletes? That's not up to my standard either. But it does prove how political these Olympics really are.
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| posted by Load Toad 57 days ago |
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Exactly Juno - a non political torch run would have been only athletes or a lottery.
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| posted by Paps of Jura 57 days ago |
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Or the equivalent of a Blue Peter presenter as in the UK
Dib Dob nib knob
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| posted by smog 57 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paps of Jura
Or the equivalent of a Blue Peter presenter as in the UK
CAreful! Don't get BB over-excited!
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| posted by bus aunty 56 days ago (edited 56 days ago) |
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The small 'd' was deliberate.
Juno, the torch run was political, had money all over it, and..... so what?
We could have had a dead mother theresa running it and she and you would still have had complaints.
Rah rah rah when will the do-gooders STFU? .... I mean, now Darfur and Burma is beautifully laid on the shoulders of China. We only supply the arms, if not, someone else will.
I want to enjoy one thing or event in the next 100yrs of my life without some freaking mong of a do-gooder-protester relating everything to some freakin moral sh*te. That's my human right to enjoy some protest free space.
I want a protest group to protest against protest groups who pollute the world and my space with their fad protests.
Pls, give meaning to your life in private FFS.
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| posted by AKA 56 days ago |
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If China is going to get upset by people shining a light on its practices and holding everything it does up to question then perhaps China was being stupidly naive by bidding for the Olympics...
come on bussanti you're running out of debating steam...that last post* was the debating equivalent of that playground favourite: "no you are"
*
yeah, yeah, yeah
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| posted by Load Toad 56 days ago |
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Yup - China getting the Olympics was about politiks and money and China basically said it would also help with mproving human rights.
Well now the chickens are coming home to roost and the Beijing Olympics are certainly not helping with human rights, nor are they helping with communication about visa processing, they aren't helping factory owners or staff, or customers, or censorship, or the people of Tibet ....
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| posted by smog 56 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by bus aunty
The small 'd' was deliberate.
In that case your post was just b*****ks, Saying that all democrats in HK are "anti-China" is just ridiculous. Even the Democrats are mainly pro-China. What many of them are is "anti-Chinese Communist Party authoritarian rule" since that can in no reasonable way be described as democratic in its current form.
It is one of the fundamental problems with the current debates and protests that many Chinese people are unable to distinguish between "China" (the land, culture & people) and "the Chinese political system" (an anti-democratic authoritarian regime imposed on the Chinese people).
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| posted by Load Toad 56 days ago |
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Spot on smog.
You used to speak the truth.
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| posted by bus aunty 55 days ago |
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Yes, I shouldn't tar every one with the same brush.
Just Martin Lee.....'Democracy. Freedom. One man one vote'.....He wouldn't know the meaning of any of them if it bit him on the proverbial.
His just a sook on the world stage because everyone got tired of his bleating in HK.
(He wouldn't bee just bleeding anti-CCP just because the Chinese gov. refuses to grant him a visa to see his 90yr old mother on the mainland, would he????).
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| posted by bus aunty 55 days ago (edited 55 days ago) |
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.....Afterall Puyi, going by your line of thought, he couldn't possibly want to return to China the land the CCP rules, a place he so thoroughly despises as a product of CCP rule....
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| posted by bus aunty 55 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by smog
[quote][i]It is one of the fundamental problems with the current debates and protests that many Chinese people are unable to distinguish between "China" (the land, culture & people) and "the Chinese political system" (an anti-democratic authoritarian regime imposed on the Chinese people).
I think Chinese people can easily distinguish between the two. But they still take offense eg. 'Goons and thugs' was only meant to target CCP and not the Chinese people but many Chinese people still too offense.
Their thinking being, love them (CCP) or hate them and their ways, but Chinese people were brought up being governed by them, and China is what it is today in part due to them. When you insult the CCP (in a crude and unjust way) ....bottom line is many Chinese a round the world did not like it reflecting on themselves.
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| posted by Load Toad 54 days ago (edited 54 days ago) |
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I read this by Barbara W. Tuchman today (she was writing about 1389 which I'm sure I don't need to remind any of you about...)
What is government but an arrangement by which many accept the authority of the few? Circuses and ceremonies are meant to encourage the acceptance; they either succeed or, by costing too much, they accomplish the opposite.
I think a certain government needs to remember that.
I wish I'd wrote that.
You used to speak the truth.
But now you're clever.
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