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French Euro Constitution Referendum.
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| posted by Gum Tree 1196 days ago (edited 1196 days ago) |
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I have been getting most of my info from BBC World Service, but would really like to know what others, especially Euros, think of this result. Is it the catastrophe for French participation in Europe as Chirac seemed to indicate? What will be the effect on the rest of Euro referenda?
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| posted by tinybear 1195 days ago |
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All I wanna know is will the US dollar rise against the Euro?
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| posted by Waterslang 1195 days ago |
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US$ will rise for a short time. (It already does as the high was at 1,37US$ for one Euro, only about six months ago.)
If the UK has survived till today without a formal constitution, my guess is that Euroland also will survive even as it seems they keep living in the past.
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| posted by Gum Tree 1195 days ago |
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I am worried that if the EU starts to disintegrate or doesn't keep moving forward, then there will be no counterbalance for the US and China markets/political push. I heard a quote from some US president something like: I am happy to work with Europe, but who do I ring?
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| posted by Waterslang 1195 days ago |
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Europe never will unite politically. Never will be able to counter the US that way. China will, India will also.
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| posted by ServerGuy 1195 days ago |
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I have not really followed it, but I do think the result was a "Get out of jail" card for Tony Blair. I think he is going to have a hard time getting the UK to say yes, no it does not matter so much. Probably the first time in years the brits as say thanks to the French.
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| posted by Waterslang 1195 days ago |
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UK and Blair will have to do something as they take over the "Euro Presidency" in one month. "Thanks" might backfire then. Frenchies don't give Brits that kind of presents that easy, believe me.
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| posted by Gum Tree 1195 days ago |
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WS - haven't the EU countries already set some political ideals as part of the union eg proper democracy, human rights issues etc. Isn't that why so many are opposed to Turkey entering?
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| posted by Waterslang 1195 days ago |
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GT, it's a really difficult subject, that Euroland. Most of the people don't really understand what their aim is, myself included.
The only positive thing I see is that some of the members have the same money. For the rest it's a lot of bla bla bla as nobody agrees with nobody. The thing about the US saying, "who do we ring over there", is sad but true.
The European Union (what Union?) gives a well paid job to lots of people though. Must be the real reason for its existence.
Not playing the devil’s advocate. It just is like that.
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| posted by Waterslang 1195 days ago |
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And Turkey joining the EU would be like Indonesia joining Oz.
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| posted by Gum Tree 1195 days ago |
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I really only know what I hear and read - have no "feeling" for the situation, which is why I asked. I am interested in the Turkey thing: seems like they have a great incentive to put in some major reforms and what a powerful statement it would be to have a Muslim country join in a predominantly Christian union. Ah well ... as JL said "Imagine"
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| posted by Waterslang 1195 days ago (edited 1195 days ago) |
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Most people have no feeling for the EU situation.
The best proof is that there are quite a few Euros here on this site and they don't even bother to post on this thread.
That says more about the EU feelings than anything else, don't you think?
And again, regarding Turkey: it won't be in my lifetime that they will join as it will probably take them another 50 years (forget about the 20).
So, not really my problem and am glad for that.
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| posted by life 1195 days ago |
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Turkey has got to be one of the most chaotic countries (that is not located in Africa)in the world. They shouldn't be allowed to join anything! Their currency was also in as bad a shape as Argentina's was, a while back. So they just ex-ed a bunch of zero's and continued. I think the main problem with Turkey entering the EU though, is the cheap labour. With countries that already have high un-employment, a cost of living that doubled with the advent of the euro, cheap labour is a no-no.
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| posted by NN 1195 days ago (edited 1195 days ago) |
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Schumann's grand idea of fortress Europe has come to halt with the French non, I am afraid. The chances are high that the Dutch will follow the French. There are some more referenda envisaged but I think all's lost already, i.e. where it concern the Constitution in its current form. For the state of play in the member states see http://europa.eu.int/constitution/ratification_en.htm
In the Netherlands people are rejecting the Constitution for different reasons. Some because they are dissatisfied with the current government and the euro (most people), some because they want to keep Turkey out of the EU (mostly the right wing parties, there's is islamphobia in the Netherlands),
some because they think the Netherlands will turn into a insignificant province of the EU and so on. In summary the reasons behind the rejection are very diverse. They do not reflect the true sentiment about the Constitution as such. Mind you, the Dutch will have an advisory referendum, meaning that the Government can set aside the results of the referendum because the outcome is not binding. The day after tomorrow we will know if the Dutch government is willing to commit hara-kiri for the sake of the EU.
Although I am in favour of the benefits of the Constitution, I do have to say that the powers-that-be have not played their cards right. The public has been left in the dark for a long time on what was going on in Brussels, i.e. when I'm talking about the Dutch situation. Only at least minute people are being rushed to say Yes, while the most of the politicians have not listen to the growing No and have done little to clear misconceptions about the Constitution or have not taken the time to explain the true scale of what is at stake. BTW, for a summary of the Constition, see http://europa.eu.int/scadplus/constitution/index_en.htm (it´s quite a lot to read I am afraid).
It's very ironic that the drafting of the Convention was chaired by a French man (former president Giscard d'Estaing) while the French were the first to say no.
I don't think the result of the French referendum is the beginning of the desintegration of the EU. I think member states are aware of the fact that they need to cooperate on certain issues (terrorism, immigration etc.). However, I think, the "non" does express that there won't be further unification of Europe, at least not for the moment. The future will tell if a mistake has been made.
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| posted by Gum Tree 1195 days ago (edited 1195 days ago) |
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The thing that interested me was their (Turkey's) attempts - some successful so far - at reforming the social structures. More education especially for females. It seems that dangling a carrot is better than applying the iron fist for peaceful reform.
Edited after nn's response. Thanks - ws seemed to imply that expat Euro's have divorced themselves from this issue - is that so? I thought it had global implications; if only the currency and trade issues.
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| posted by life 1195 days ago |
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There is also the Cyprus issue. Cyprus is a member of the EU and vehemently opposes the entry of Turkey into the union. Turkey invaded Cyprus in the 70's and has refused to leave. To add insult to injury, property owned by the Greeks who fled was given to Turks. As the Greeks try to reclaim their property they are being denied. The Cyprus Turks are jailing police officers who arrive in their territory with court summons.
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| posted by life 1195 days ago |
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alas, another US backed invasion..
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| posted by adfundum 1195 days ago |
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latest poll on Dutch Euro constitution referendum = 59% against vs. 41% in favour...
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| posted by NN 1195 days ago |
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Adfundum> There goes "Ode to Joy". Time for an ad fundum ...
GUM> I do think most Euro expats are not very into what's happening with the Constitution, so I have to agree with WS on that. Just the odd one who is interested. BTW, I don't think there will be severe impact on currency or trade issues because the EU member states are already closely cooperating in those fields.
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| posted by adfundum 1195 days ago |
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quote:
Originally posted by nomen nescio
Adfundum> There goes "Ode to Joy". Time for an ad fundum ...
Nomen> As a matter of fact, yes... My trusty watch tells me it's just turned 5 minutes past Beer o' clock... Cheers!
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